‘Makin’ an insurer pay? It’s a matter of interpretation
Makin v Protec & QBE [2025] EWHC 895 (KB); Burnett v International Insurance Company of Hanover Ltd [2021] UKSC 12 Two cases, both alike in dignity. But with very different…
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Such a discussion will often arise in the context of conduct or performance concerns, grievances, or redundancy discussions, with the employer giving the employee the option of going through an internal process, or agreeing to exit with agreed termination payments. The conversation will be “off the record” for the purposes of a subsequent unfair dismissal claim brought by the employee (assuming that no agreed departure happens, and the employee is either dismissed or resigns).
So, for example, an employee dismissed for misconduct and claiming unfair dismissal, would not be able to lead evidence about the fact that at an early stage, the employer sought to discuss terms for an exit.
There are some important limits on this “off the record” protection:
In the recent case of Gallagher v McKinnon’s Auto and Tyres Ltd, consideration was given to whether the employer had acted improperly so as to allow the employee to give evidence about the “protected conversation” as part of his claim that his redundancy dismissal was unfair.
While Mr Gallagher was off sick, the company decided it could manage without him and that therefore his role could be dispensed with and his duties taken on by the directors. At a return to work meeting, he was offered an enhanced termination package of £10,000 if he agreed to sign a Settlement Agreement, and failing that the company would go through a redundancy process. He was asked to give an answer to the proposal within 48 hours; there was then an exchange of messages about how the £10,000 was calculated, but Mr Gallagher did not accept the offer. The company went ahead with a redundancy process and the employee was dismissed.
The Employment Tribunal (“ET”) considered his argument that the company was guilty of impropriety in the way it acted and that therefore Mr Gallagher could give evidence about the “protected conversation”. The ET rejected that argument, finding that the entire discussion was off the record and could not form part of the evidence in the unfair dismissal case. The ET rejected Mr Gallagher’s allegation that the company representatives were aggressive and swore at him, and also did not accept that the company had a draft Settlement Agreement sitting on the table.
Mr Gallagher appealed to the Employment Appeal Tribunal (“EAT”) arguing that the ET had got it wrong on three specific points where it should have found improper conduct:
Mr Gallagher’s appeal was therefore dismissed. He will continue with his unfair dismissal claim, but evidence about the pre-termination negotiation will be inadmissible.
This decision provides support for a number of common employer practices:
However, this case does highlight the need to be careful when having a protected conversation and to recognise that an employee can challenge and dispute whether the discussion is truly “off the record”.
To minimise risk and avoid putting the employee under undue pressure:
As ever, expert advice is available from our Employment Law team.
This update contains general information only and does not constitute legal or other professional advice.
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